Forum:Concerning Censorship
So, as the name suggests, this is about the precent censorship. I would like to start this by quoting a member of the CBW Discord. "the fact that this wiki was formed by kids around a children's line means we orient our identity around that, and with that comes a respect or the parents' wishes" ''' (I have chosen not to name the member due to not having there consent to name them, however I can name them if need be) Bionicle was a very beloved childrens toyline, as we OBVIOUSLY know. A toyline so well made that, many of us have decided to carry it on with us into our adulthood. The Bionicle is still very much alive and active. Granted it is FAR from it's golden days, it's still here and not dying any time soon. But if you are to look at ANYTHING, weather it be BZP, any active biotuber (I know there are actually still some there!) even CBW itself, there is one common thing. We're all adults The Bionicle community has stopped growing and I think it's safe to say we can all admit this to some extent. Gen 2 failed to bring about a new generation of young Bionicle fans, and I think only helped to make it clear that the community isn't growing, and that the only people still in it are now adults. Children are no longer interested in Bionicle. It's just us, the fans who have been here since 2001 and grew up with the toyline, followed the story, etc etc With this whole intro out of the way, the topic of this. As stated in that quote, this was a website made by kids for a kids toyline. The wiki was made back in 2007 if my small search is correct. It is now 2018, 11 years since the wiki was made. Those "kids" who made this server have grown up, and no more "kids" have joined. Maybe you have some teenagers join every now and then, but that seems to be pretty rare. The server seems to be done by a small group of active community members, who are all adults. THe server is no longer the "home" of several young children who wanna show off whatever over glorified Inika build mocs they have. We are all grown, what we built has become more complex, and more importantly, what we have written, our ideas, everything about us and how we approach Bionicle, has matured with us. Yet, out censorship policies have not changed to accomodate this. Which is why I suggest ''a change in censorship policies.'' When we grow up, we either grow out of things or take a more adult look at them. This is how we chose to approach Bionicle. Our stories are darker and/or take on more mature themes (though not too drastic it's still a kids toy), yet our censorship polices force the things we write, the way we interact, etc, to still fit what we expect of children. They haven't addapted or changed to accomodate the fact that the Bionicle community has grown up. Because of this, I think some changes need to be made, to accomodate the fact that we aren't 8-12 anymore First I'd like to cover how I think fanfiction should be handled.: I think the system that BZP uses for fanfictions would work best. Instead of completely limiting what you can do with your stories, they instead have a rating system that is based off of U.S. movie ratings. The different ratings allow for different levels of violence, language, etc to be allowed G: No language and minimum violence, no brutal violence or death, etc. You get the idea I think PG: A bit harsher combat is allowed, though again nothing too much. Maybe you can drop the word "damn" every now and then PG-13: Combat can be much more violent and brutal (no not like DOOM levels of violence. More like a horrible transformers movie), also a bit stronger language is allowed, though if you start dropping s bombs, f bombs, etc etc is a BIG no no, maybe saying "hell" or "damn" things like that. Basically just those two R: R is just completely banned. This is something that FOR SURE shouldn't be here and we can all argee on this Next is community behavior (AKA: Discord Chat, talk page comments, etc) Again, the bionicle community is adults now, and the number of children in this community that you will interact with is SO SMALL that it almost never happens. Therefore, I think we should be allowed to be able to act like adults when we're around each other. What I'd suggest for this is allow people to keep there comments on the discord, and in talk pages, about the same as what you'd expect from a fanfic rated PG-13. In other words, we can talk and act like adults, we can use that same kind of language and talk about more adult topics, (I hope I'm wording this clearly). We're all adults who are talking with other adults now, so let us talk and act like it. Am I saying completely get rid of censorship? No. This is still a kids toy and there's some things that just plain shouldn't be here. But at the same time, those kids are either gone or grew up, we're adults now, so we should change the policies to accomodate for that. Bionicle may be a kids toy, made for kids, and this site may have been made by kids, for a kids toy. But let me remind you Bionilce was a kids toy made by adults. And the Bionicle community, is now adults. The Duke Is AWSOME!!! (talk) 07:10, April 7, 2018 (UTC) Hi there, MCGPY. Thank you for taking the time to come forward with your concerns. After reading through your above suggestions with careful consideration, I would like to discuss further some aspects of this proposal. It seems to me that a good portion of your message is borne of a discontent with the Official CBW Discord Server. However, there are some statements here that apply more directly to the wiki itself. Then there are some statements that are used (mis)used to distinguish between the Discord server and the wiki itself. I will here address your proposals for the wiki specifically since my jurisdiction and expertise does not extend to operation of the CBW Discord sphere. First, let me debunk one worrying critique of the site trenchant within your argument. When you suggest that CBW has not grown or matured with the times since its inception in mid-2007, you do not seem to properly consider the exhaustive policy discussions undertaken by each administration (I believe there have been four in total). With every generation of bureaucrats, the rules and regulations have been changed and adapted to suit the needs and expectations of the fandom and I personally feel that administrators should be open to revising policy once a year. Moreover, CBW actually just went through an especially significant policy overhaul in June 2017, which updated and rewrote the entirety of the site rules 1. Moving on more specifically to the substance of your proposal, however, I find there to be some confusion here. CBW does not have a “censorship policy” in the same way that the discord does since wikis and IM chats operate very differently. We host a set of Content Guidelines and a Manual of Style, which concern themselves exclusively with determining what manner of content we as an administrative collective permit on the wiki, thereby ensuring that CBW maintains a certain standard on its articles across the board. It seems to me you have some dissatisfaction with the Content Guidelines portion of the rules and the fact they cater towards a younger, more impressionable fandom, so I will draw your attention to an extract of our most current policy: While you are correct in your assertion that the community is getting older (yes, that is generally how time works), I think you need to give more consideration to the implications of BIONICLE being intended as a children’s toy line. You mention it several times in your proposal but don’t actually reference what the other end of that scale carries. Although it is true that the franchise underwent a darker reboot in 2006, followed by an unsuccessful backstep to its softer LEGO roots in 2009, it is also true that its values remain a very nostalgic part of this fandom’s heritage, with many members of its community favoring the earlier years for their simpler charm. Lots of users come to CBW because it is a rose-tinted, child-friendly environment, evocative of an easier, more sentimental period in their lives. We as an administrative body have the charge of holding this balance between the two stages of BIONICLE, which fall somewhere between a G and PG rating if we’re speaking plainly. As such, I really don’t see much interest in approving less safe for work content on a wiki that has such a high standard to maintain. We already allow 13-rated stories - for which you need look no further than Red Star, There Will Be Blood, The Dead Island and my own Besieged - but this is generally only within the confines of an Official CBW Halloween Writing Contest. For reasoning here, I can only say that there isn’t much of a demand for this type of story since BIONICLE is not an inherently violent or adult theme and the wiki should reflect this. As for your proposal of a rating system, I think that is wading into some dangerous territory since ratings are so often subjective. Stories like what you describe already exist within the confines of the site rules, with light swearing occurring on a tasteful, single occasion in Quest for the Masks, outright violent stories such as The Eternal Game or The Hand of Fear, and light-moderate violence throughout the Fractures Universe and Remains Story Arc, all of which adhere to the requirements of the site rules. And, if that’s not enough from marketing and administrative standpoints, I will also point out that we are obligated by online mandates, such as the COPPA provision, to ensure minors are protected on our website. This is the guiding force behind every contribution made and, unfortunately, if we cannot guarantee that our wiki is safe for work within a reasonable range between G and PG 13, then we rightly face disciplinary actions from Wikia Central for violating their Terms of Use. As such, I remain personally unconvinced there is any legitimate cause to change the existing rules to suit the minority on this wiki wanting to write more graphic stories. My recommendation would be to continue trying to write within the very lenient age restriction and to see what response Gonel and Pitcat can bring to the table in regards to etiquette on the CBW Discord. Again, the chat rules have been the subject of constant re-negotiation and I hope you can sympathize in the widely accepted fact that a website’s Discord has the potential to attract any younger, prospective new users checking out the community for the first time. I hope this helps, Hi there! As Bob said, Discord and the wiki are entirely different beasts. While they have similar rules, there's a reason censorship is heavier on the Discord channel; the main reason being to stop users from using inappropriate language in an abusive manner and creating a potentially hostile environment for users new and old. Whether you're an adult or child, I'm sure no one likes being cursed at when they join a community. I'm not on the wiki itself much, but I assume there is more leniency. With curse words in stories, it is also possible to come up with your own words? I'm not talking about minorly editing an already existing curse word, but rather make something up, if you would like heavier swears (on the wiki). Minor cursing is fine, such as the use of "hell" in Pirates: The Regathering. I hope this is clearing stuff up for you. - Pit I have little to add beyond what Bob and Pit have detailed above and what I have already outlined to you in our DM (and yes, for those of you who don't know, that quote is mine). However, as to your point that we are all adults (of course, defined in this community as being over thirteen) I know of a few users (whose anonymity will be preserved) who originally joined this community a few years back, before they were over thirteen. When I first became aware of this site, I would have joined immediately had I not happened to thoroughly read the wiki policy and see that children under thirteen are not permitted. I eventually did come back, if many years later, but there are many who accidentally overlook those stipulations and join at once much as I almost did. Moreover, the Bionicle community has seen a trickle of new members who joined because of G2, and as that series was not aimed at adults, one can imagine that at least some of them are not as well. --''[[User:ToaGonel|'''HA]][[User Talk:ToaGonel|'IL']] [[User:ToaGonel/Saga Guide|'DEN']][[The Broken Order Universe|'MARK']]'' 18:15, April 7, 2018 (UTC) Thank you Bob for correcting me on these things, I didn't know of them. My reasoning behind this is actually not related to really any dissatisfaction. Really I think for the most part things are quite fine, with just a couple minor complaints (which I made i my original post). My reason for making this is more because the wiki seems to still be trying to appeal to the community, as if we were all kids. Though I will certainly say that I don't have the widest knowledge of present behaviors and actions in those regards of the wiki. I do understand the direction you're coming at this from, and honestly I don't disagree entirely. My suggestions are made more to allow more wiggle room, not completely change the site to an adult oriented wiki. It's still Bionicle and Bionicle is still a kids toy, and not even I want to see it just suddenly be flooded with things so mature they don't belong. Also THERE IS A LACK OF THODE PRAISING IN THE DISCORD I AM NOT OK WITH THIS --The Duke Is AWSOME!!! (talk) 21:03, April 7, 2018 (UTC)